Their Story Their Voice
Their Story Their Voice
Finding Joy Amid Capitalism: Elsie Gilmore on Activism, Sustainability, and Systemic Change
In this episode of 'Their Story, Their Voice,’I spoke to writer Elsie Gilmore about her upcoming book, 'How to Find Joy in a Capitalist Hellscape.' Elsie shares her background growing up on a dairy farm in Vermont, her disillusionment with capitalism that began in her 20s, and her entrepreneurial journey. We discuss the negative impacts of capitalism on society, labor, and the environment, as well as healthcare disparities in the U.S. and U.K. Elsie also touches on the importance of activism and finding joy amidst societal challenges.
Please note transcription accuracy may vary.
Below are links to the materials mentioned in this episode:
https://elsiegilmore.com
https://www.instagram.com/elsie_gilmore_author/
https://www.girlplanet.earth/our-global-voices/elsie-gilmore
https://substack.com/@elsiegilmore
https://elsiegilmore.com/how-to-find-joy-book/
Music by:
(Neffex - A year ago)
(Neffex - dont want to let myself go)
Hi, hi, hi, welcome to another episode of Their Story, Their Voice. This episode I speak to Elsie Gilmore she's a writer. She has two books. We will be discussing her new book that's coming out, called How to Find Joy in a Capitalist Hellscape. Elsie describes this as a non BS guide to carving out happiness in a world designed to stress you out. So please tune in. I hope you enjoy. Thank you for listening. I hope you're all well. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for listening to another episode. Hi, Elsie. How are you?
Elsie:I am great. Thank you so much.
Ad:Thank you so much for saying yes, you would come and speak to me. Just tell me a bit about you, anything that you're happy sharing.
Elsie:Well, I'm in the United States, and I grew up, for someone my age, which is 51, I grew up in a very, small, small town on a dairy farm, and went to a two room schoolhouse, which is very unique Because when I go to like the UK, everything seems very quaint to me. So the little town I grew up in is very much like a quaint little like UK town that's forgotten by time. So it was a very unique experience and it was just a super safe and like naturally inspiring place to be because I was in the middle of nowhere surrounded by farmland and nature. So, from there, I think that really influenced my life.
Ad:How long were you living there? What age did you move to the big bad world,
Elsie:it was a long time before I moved to the big world because to me the whole state of Vermont is a small world. So I lived on the farm until I was 16 and then I ended up moving to a nearby city, which I have to put in quotes because it was only like 16, 000 people. So it wasn't until I was 30 that I left Vermont and really went to much bigger places but I had traveled before then. I just hadn't lived anywhere else.
Ad:Okay. At what stage did you start to experience what capitalism is. So at what stage did you start to become disillusioned with capitalism?
Elsie:Well, even in my 20s, so where I was from was very rural and it had gone through a phase of sort of de industrialization, which really affected The a large part of the population there because there were many unskilled people there And so even if you're unskilled you can go be trained to work in a factory and actually do really well And as you know back then you could have a pension and it was a good living, but A lot of people around me, when I was growing up and in my 20s, they saw life as you work for a company for your whole life and you put off it. all of the amazing things you want to do until you retire, right? So you just kind of slog through life until you retire, and then maybe you will do all of the things, right? And a lot of the people around me didn't seem happy, and probably that was part of it, right? They were putting off their happiness. And so I really started And I didn't think of it as an impact of capitalism at the time, right? But I knew that I didn't want my life to be like that. I knew that I wanted to be living my life during the whole thing and not waiting until the end. So that was kind of when it started to hit me.
Ad:At what stage decided actually there has to be another way for you?
Elsie:Yeah, I was in my 20s when I kind of realized that because every job I worked, I wasn't very happy yet. And part of it was because again, the rural environment A lot of women were relegated to like administrative jobs, right? And to me, that wasn't very interesting. And I didn't feel like my full potential was being used in any of those jobs. And so, I was really bored and I didn't really like the structured, environment of most jobs, like assuming that you will have energy to work between eight and five, you will sit at a desk for four hours, then you get to have lunch, and then in the afternoon, when, people in other countries are taking a siesta, you will work another four hours, right? And so just to me, it's like, well, my energy fluctuates and my, you know, creativity fluctuates and all this other stuff. And so, I just knew I had a very entrepreneurial spirit and so I was trying to figure out how to use that, but in my 20s, I didn't know how. It wasn't until I moved to another state that was more entrepreneurial and there were more women involved in that, that I was like, Oh, this is where I should be and, and I can, you know, You know, start my own business and I can work outside the traditional eight to five in an office environment.
Ad:Everything that you said, I completely agree with because I know there's some people it works for them. And I understand that, but I also see more so with the younger generation, it doesn't really work for them. And they're standing up and saying, we want something different. Yeah. There has to be something better than this. I'm going to leave my opinions about how I feel about capitalism out of this. What aspects of capitalism do you actually find harmful?
Elsie:Right. So obviously The exploitation of labor when it is not done fairly, I can only speak for the US, but our minimum wage has not gone up in like forever. If we really tracked like the cost of living, our minimum wage should be like 26 to 30. It's 7. 25. So, we as a nation have decided that it's okay if people work for poverty wages, you know, so part of it is capitalism, but capitalism affects our government so much. And that's why our government is kind of an, at this point, an arm of capitalism. I truly feel that. It's allowing people to work either in bad conditions for not enough money. And without healthcare, you know, and all of that stuff, our healthcare system Transcribed Is run by corporations. Where are you anyway? I'm not sure I know where you are.
Ad:I'm in the United Kingdom and,
Elsie:okay, so you're in the uk. Okay.
Ad:It's very much the same here.
Elsie:Oh, really? Even your healthcare system.
Ad:We have. the NHS, National Health System, and I can't remember when it was set up, I think maybe sometime in the 50s, 60s, and it was set up for a reason, and it worked, and it was great. Now, you're still contributing, and then if you want an appointment to see a doctor. Not getting an appointment because the waiting's list is so long.
Elsie:What if there's something really, really wrong with you? What if you have an emergency?
Ad:Okay, so we have A& E, Accident and Emergency. So in the event of an emergency, you would go there. What I have been finding from people I know who've had to go to A& E in the last few months, they're sitting there for seven, eight, I And that's, that's a really long time for accident and emergency.
Elsie:And that can happen here too. So it sounds like they're both terrible. You can wait and you also still have to pay. I mean, I've had pretty good experiences with our healthcare system other than I was just in the hospital for two days and now I owe them 2, 600. out of my own pocket, so to me, I'd rather that came out of my taxes. And was just something I never saw, right? Then it had to come out of my actual pocket, so. Well, it sounds like you guys need some, some work on your system, too.
Ad:We're british, so we have this very much. You know, just keep quiet. Suck it up. It's fine. That is a little bit more how we are.
Elsie:I know, I have a few friends and they're definitely like that. Which makes the healthcare system worse because preventative care, is less expensive than putting it off, you know, and letting it become an emergency. So that's why that one thing they do with healthcare here is they really push the preventative care because it saves the insurance companies money. So I will give them that.
Ad:If I was in America and I didn't have a job, how am I paying for health care?
Elsie:Right, so we have a thing I think it's Medicaid. So if you're poor enough, you can get Medicaid, which is very basic insurance, which will cover you. But also, I don't really think a hospital can refuse to treat you. Most of them there might be some commercially owned ones that can but if you go to a hospital like emergency room here And there's something really really wrong with you. They can't turn you away They just have to try to get some money from you afterwards or you can fill out paperwork that shows that you're super poor And then I don't know what happens but I mean It more prevents people from doing the preventative stuff that would keep them out of the emergency room, right? But if, but like I said, if you're poor enough in, I think in every state in this country, you can get on Medicaid and then you have basic health care. Because I don't, I work for myself, so I have to buy my own insurance. Which, there is a subsidy, thanks to President Obama, who got us a little bit better healthcare, didn't quite go all the way. I get a subsidy to help me pay my insurance premiums every month, so that I can have insurance with no employer.
Ad:It's not just America, there's just so many things that I just feel is so questionable about how human beings are treated.
Elsie:I don't think people should make money off sick people. I don't think that's something that should be done for profit. You know, I mean, that's my biggest. issue with it is that, and I shouldn't have to, because many people in this country have terrible insurance plans. My insurance plan, because I work for myself, my taxes make it look like I don't make any money, which I don't make that much money. So I have a zero deductible. So I don't know if you know, but a deductible is, is what you have to pay out of your own pocket every year, until you reach the max. And so, I have a zero deductible, so I never have to think to myself to go to a doctor, this is gonna cost me 70 or 100. Because I think that even that tiny amount, and your, the mental attitude people have about it, will keep them from going to a doctor. And so, I don't think anyone should have an insurance plan with a deductible. So it's just stuff like that. It's like, do we want people to go to the doctor? But some people have like a 10, 000 deductible or like a huge deductible that's so big that if they had to use the whole thing, it would be a lot of money and that's per year. So yeah, it's just, can't we take care of each other? You know? Isn't that what being part of a community means, is that everyone should have a minimum quality of life?
Ad:The pharmaceutical companies in America. Is one of my big issues with America they can just charge whatever they want.
Elsie:Well, we've definitely gotten a little bit better at reining that in, especially for things like, diabetes drugs, because they're so expensive. So many people here who have diabetes because we don't eat well, but, yeah, the pharmaceutical companies have so much money, but other countries like Canada, but I would assume the UK also in other parts of Europe, they are able to get better prices than we are because we are so, you know, and meshed with capitalism, like we pay more for our drugs from them than other countries do, like, Why is our government making us, having us pay more? It's just ridiculous. So, like, our government is so much more protective of corporations than they are of us actual citizens. That's what really gets me. And both parties in our country.
Ad:I should have pre warned you this is what I do, if you say something that's interesting, I will then just want to know more.
Elsie:Let's do it.
Ad:Do you ever see that, do you ever see that changing? You've got, your elections are, November?
Elsie:They're coming up to November.
Ad:Do you see this getting better within your lifetime?
Elsie:Well, it's either going to get better or this whole thing is going to collapse because it's unsustainable the way we're going with corporations and stuff. But the problem is, one of the problems with our country is it's too big. So it's really hard to get everyone on the same page, like it is in a place like, the UK or France or Spain. We have such a vast array of people. It's like we live in two or three different countries in this one country. So that's difficult, but I, things are, I think this election is going to be interesting. I don't know if you've been paying attention, but this election really could go a lot of ways because I don't know if you're familiar with our green candidate, Jill Stein.
Ad:No, actually, you have a green candidate.
Elsie:Yes. So Jill Stein, it's Dr. Jill Stein. She's super smart. She really. created our Green New Deal that, some of the Democratic candidates, the progressive ones, were kind of running on for eight years ago. So she is a very attractive candidate. The Democratic Party, I don't know if you know who Bernie Sanders is, but the Democratic Party will sabotage anyone who tries to come in. and gain some power. So they sabotaged Bernie Sanders, who, my goodness, I can only imagine the amazing things that man would have at least tried to do in this country. And so Jill Stein is going to be on almost every ballot for president, in the United States in November. And a lot of people who are very disenchanted with our whole toxic, screwed up system are thinking about voting for her. So if they do that, It's hard to say what will happen, because if enough of them do it, two things will happen. Neither of the other two candidates will get enough electoral votes to win, but also the Green Party for the next election would get federal funding for their election, which they have never managed to do. So yeah, we have more parties. They're just never given a chance.
Ad:I've always looked at it as just America, but actually no, depending on where you are, it's completely different.
Elsie:California is like its own country. They have their own stuff going on. They have an enormous economy, big enough to be a country, and they really just do whatever the heck they want. So that's like its own thing. And then the South, obviously Texas, and it's really California, the Midwest, Texas, Texas is kind of its own thing too. And then the South and well, then, then the Northeast, though, they all have their own like culture, really, you know,
Ad:I never realized that until I was there, then it dawned on me. That was when I realized. Some laws that are put in place are different in California than they are in other states I didn't know that until I was there, didn't even occur to me because in my world, it's one country, but you have so many states who are all doing different things. I think that makes you America quite interesting from an outsider's point of view.
Elsie:It definitely is. Like I said, it just makes it hard to get everybody together on like a federal issue. So I don't know. Yeah, I just, there's so much stuff going on. So I'm watching the election with everyone is going to be glued to this election because it's really, I don't know if you watched the recent debate.
Ad:No, because I can't take him.
Elsie:I don't think those debates really changed anyone's mind anyway, but he definitely said some crazy things that will be quoted for a long time.
Ad:But he always does. Outsiders who obviously don't live in America. Think we all just went through a stage where we thought. Wow, that's actually the President of America.
Elsie:Was there a lot of similarity between him and Boris? I can't remember. He was kind of, he was kind of nutty, right? Right, so we had that going on at the same time and I was like, what is going on?
Ad:It's like the world, the world had fallen apart.
Elsie:But I think you guys got rid of him, right?
Ad:We did. I he was still voted in. He was still our prime minister. So whenever I'd speak to people from America about Trump, I then realized I'm in no position to say anything because We had Boris.
Elsie:I think, you know, there's a reason for Trump. There's a reason that Trump and Boris both got in. And that reason to me, I think, is because a lot of people in our countries have been economically disenfranchised, going back to capitalism. And those people don't see anyone that's on their side. And so in our case, Trump and Bernie Sanders both represented something different, someone who was kind of outside the system and unfortunately Bernie wasn't given a chance and so the only one left for them to vote for that was not a career politician was Trump, because he promised to help them which he didn't, I don't think, but of course he'll tell you, he'll tell them that he did and then they'll go yes he did. I feel bad for the kind of person who eats that stuff up because they're being manipulated, right? They're being exploited, and not everyone is sophisticated. We live in a world where there is so much information, but it's not all true. So yes, we have access to the truth, but unless you're sophisticated, you often cannot discern what that is, right? So Nine, nine. You know, people like Trump take advantage of that, because he knows that.
Ad:He was actually quite smart. That was a very smart game that he played. And whatever anyone thinks of him, we have to give him that.
Elsie:No, and he was never, like, I watched videos of him from, I don't know, 20 or more years ago. sounded completely intelligent, completely sane. He was actually the other party back then. He was a democrat back then. Now he's a republican. You know, so I don't, I think, well, I do think power and money corrupt people. I think that's a thing. And he, he actually grew up with all of that. So at some point the dollar signs must have flashed in his eyes and he just, You know, I think it can be an addiction just like I need more money I need more power and just do whatever you have to do So, I don't know he just really went off the deep end and I don't think he's leaving there anytime soon So do you guys worry like were there negative impacts? For you from Trump being president. And do people, do you worry about that? Did you worry about him starting a nuclear war or?
Ad:Oh, all the time, all the time. Sometimes I'll say to my family on a serious note. I'm genuinely quite scared that one day all these other countries that America may have peed off slightly will retaliate and they're kind of already, you can already see it happening. And that scares me.
Elsie:Oh, believe me. Yeah. I mean, I would like the United States to be taken down a notch, not too many notches. I don't want people to die, but you know, the brick countries like the, you know, The southern hemisphere countries are getting stronger and they're starting to work together and it's like could we have someone else running the world, please, besides us because we're pretty terrible. I definitely think we have become so distracted in this country from being a great nation. Like, how are you a great nation if you don't fund education? Like, I don't even understand that. People in other countries are so much more educated and skilled than people in America. Like, that, I thought that used to be something we were proud of, is that, you know, our education system, and now, apparently, we care nothing about it anymore. So, just stuff like that, that we, I don't know how we could remain, like, a superpower if our citizens are poor, uneducated, that's just something that you want if you want to control them, right? Not if you want to be a great nation. So, I don't know. I'm definitely worried about Russia if Trump becomes president.
Ad:I'm worried about Russia. I'm worried about North Korea. I'm worried about Iran. Honestly, if they all got together, it's really bad for us. And, Because, rightly or wrongly, the United Kingdom, for being such a small little island, we love to get involved in things. And, in the event that Russia did retaliate, who actually is going to, stands up for us because we are very small. I love the way I've just gone off on such a tangent.
Elsie:No, it's fascinating to think about all this stuff. You know, like you said, it could, something really bad could happen. Like there's, I'm sure there is a balance in the world, you know, that's a little fragile that keeps everything from exploding.
Ad:Is there anything at all about capitalism that you think is worth preserving?
Elsie:Yeah, I wouldn't throw out capitalism altogether. I mean, I don't consider farmers markets capitalism. I don't consider small brick and mortar mom and pop businesses capitalism. I don't consider Girl Scouts selling Girl Scout cookies to be capitalism. So I think It's okay to have commerce, but not if it's based on exploitation of people and the resources like polluting the earth, like that's the part that needs to go and the incredible wealth and income disparity that it creates, that part is so damaging. So we can have commerce, but it needs to be responsible, you know?
Ad:I just don't know what that would look like.
Elsie:Well, I mean, for us, So when, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was president, we had a 90 percent marginal tax rate on income over like a million dollars or something. And so we had the strongest, most thriving middle class that we've ever had in this country. So, I mean, if you think about it, people who make That much money use more of the government's resources like roads and the post office I don't know all that stuff. So they really should be paying for it more. But also Again, what kind of a country are we if everyone doesn't have a minimum quality of life, right? Because a lot of times people in this country like oh the stock market's doing great. Our economy is great Okay. Well, a lot of people are not invested in the stock market. They don't care when the stock market goes up and it doesn't benefit them at all.
Ad:It doesn't. It actually, it doesn't. I just, I don't know. I just don't personally feel it's going. I don't see anything different happening in my lifetime. And when I look at all of the different options, communism. socialism, they all have their flaws.
Elsie:I agree. And to me, any system of government can be corrupted, right? So at its, on its face, it could be great. It's kind of like religion, who's leading it? You know, if someone terrible is leading the religion, then it's probably going to be terrible. So if someone terrible, most, many people who get to that level of leadership, like in government. They're going to be subject to a certain amount of corruption. So I think that's where it goes wrong. Not that any system like socialism, communism, democracy, whatever is bad, but that you you know, then capitalists swoop in and they want to make money off it.
Ad:It is capitalism that I, I do have an issue of capitalism. I always, all the time, when I said to my friend, I'm speaking to you and she said, Oh, what about? And I said, capitalism. And she said, Oh, your favorite subject. Because actually it doesn't have to be like this. We could actually stand up and it could be, it could be better.
Elsie:Yeah. I mean, and to me, that's what it would take. A lot of people on the streets making life very inconvenient for other people. Cause that's what, that's what protesting is. It's gotta be inconvenient. Cause people in our country will be like, You shouldn't block the roads. I need to get to work. I'm like, well, we're trying to save the world, you know, so maybe you'll get to work late.
Ad:See, I always, I have this, obviously I must have made it up, but in America, there's some countries that I think are really good when it comes to standing up for themselves. America and France are two that come to my mind. I feel like sometimes you stand up.
Elsie:Yeah, sometimes we're very good about that. And it's, you know, like the Black Lives Matter movement, which was very powerful during the pandemic. But even with that, some things change, but not enough, you know, that then we end up doing it again 10 years later. So even like the environmental movement, like we do it and we get some results. But I don't know if the results are enough. I think a lot of times we get just enough to placate us. So we will be quiet for a while. You know, it's just, there's so many issues.
Ad:You mentioned earlier, about protesting, and I did actually want to ask you, I don't know when, but you, you got arrested outside the White House.
Elsie:I did. So in 2011, I don't know if you've heard of the organization 350. org? But, they are an environmental organization and so 350 is the parts per million of carbon that we should not go over in the atmosphere. And I think we're at 400 now, but the leader of that organization is someone I really respect. He's kind of one of my environmental idols. His name is Bill McKibben, and he put a call out to see if people wanted to go get arrested during this 20 days of protests. It was the tar sands action. So it had to do with the tar sands in Canada, and they were going to build a pipeline called the Keystone XL Pipeline. You may have heard of it. And so we were going to protest In front of the White House, while Obama was president, and we knew we were going to get arrested. So we did all this training and stuff. And there was a celebrity there every day. And the day I was there, it was Daryl Hannah. Yes. So I got arrested with Daryl Hannah. That's my claim to fame. So yeah, we all got arrested. And, interestingly enough, the day before that happened, Hurricane Irene, devastated my home state of Vermont. And hurricanes aren't really supposed to devastate the state of Vermont because it's in the northeast. So, I kind of felt like that's why I, you know, this is why I'm doing this because these hurricanes are getting crazier and Less easy to predict. And so the Keystone XL pipeline was never built.
Ad:Yay you, I said it to you when I emailed, I'm a big believer in, if you want a change, you do need to stand up.
Elsie:Yeah, I think everyone is going to have to become an activist because especially I don't know how civically active people are in the UK but in the US many people think that all they have to do is vote and you do have to vote but At this point, you can't just vote. You have to be doing other things throughout the year because all of these gears and wheels are turning the whole year, every year, and if we don't pay attention to them, like, so where I'm from, there's the developers, the land developers have a lot of power. They have a lot of money and a lot of power, and if we don't, like, watch what they're doing, they'll just put skyscrapers everywhere, you know? So we have to really Go to meetings and keep up with what's happening and then do letter writing campaigns and just all of this stuff to make sure they don't ruin everything, you know, so you can sit home and complain about them ruining everything.
Ad:I understand why they feel the need to protest about the environment and waste being dumped in our rivers. Why would anyone think that's acceptable? People should be protesting that. How else do you get them to listen?
Elsie:I think some people just don't think it's their problem, you know. See, that's the problem, especially in this country, and it's probably true everywhere, like It's not their problem until it affects them personally, which by then it's gotten so much worse, you know It's the inability to have empathy like I see it happening to you, but it's not my problem So I'm not gonna do anything about it yet, right?
Ad:Yes, exactly that and that is people's attitudes I said that to my partner during the time and we had Black Lives Matter protest obviously in London and I said to him, Oh, I would like to go and he said, but, but why? And I said, you, I'm not, I'm not having a go at you, but I need you to know that I understand why you don't get it but it, it matters to me. And actually just because you don't get it. Doesn't mean it's okay. And I, you're right, that is most people's attitudes. It doesn't affect me. So why do I need to get involved?
Elsie:And, but the thing is, they can't even think far enough ahead to see it might affect me eventually. So maybe I should help stop it now, before it does that, right? Even if that's, that's a selfish attitude, but even, you know, it's, logical. Like if this is happening to someone else, it could eventually happen to me. I don't know.
Ad:I'm going to ask you something and I don't even know how you're going to answer this because I, I wouldn't be able to answer this. What is your vision of, you know, in a dream world that obviously in my opinion is never going to exist, What's your vision of an ideal society? How would that work?
Elsie:Well, I think you have to have, and we kind of already do, you have to have part capitalism and part socialism, right? You have to have services that everyone gets, and then you can also have some commerce. But the biggest thing that you need are good leaders. And that's, that's what we need. That's where it always seems to go awry. So, I think the best society is one where there's a minimum level of quality of life for every single person, right? And that if you're there, you're getting that minimum level of quality of life.
Ad:Okay. When I was in LA I loved it. However, LA is the best and the worst of capitalism. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. because it is, it's the best of capitalism and it is the worst. Yeah.'cause no one's helping those people who are just sleeping on the streets.
Elsie:And the whole, the homelessness issue and even the drug issue in this country are both related to capitalism, you know, there's a great book called chasing the scream, I think. And it talks about our war on drugs, right? And how other people have handled drug issues differently than just trying to arrest everyone, which is what we do, right? But arresting someone does not deal with the underlying causes of a drug issue, which could be That you can't afford rent, that you don't make enough money, all of the things that, you know, are related to capitalism. So, you know, and I just read an article recently about mental illness and like, do you really have a mental health issue or is it just capitalism? Right? Because you're, you can't afford rent, you can't afford food, you have to have three jobs, right? I would feel mental health issues if all I did was struggle for money. So, There's so many offshoot problems that come from our toxic version of capitalism.
Ad:I know how it works or doesn't work. To be fair, because sometimes I'm a bit hard on the United Kingdom, but actually our system works a bit better than, your system. I'm not sure if that's because we are so small. And also we have this great thing called, social housing. You don't have anything like that.
Elsie:No, we don't. Like, I can only imagine the number of people in this country that sleep on the street or in their car. So, and on top of that, we, I'm sure you guys are dealing with the Airbnb issue, where the, the number of apartments available for rent Has been vastly decreased because people are using them as short term rentals. And so it pushes up the cost of actual apartments for people to live in and it decreases the supply. So, you know, we deal with that all over this country, which does not help the homelessness issue. It's again, it's turning everything into profit. even things that you need to survive every day.
Ad:What would you advise a person like me or your friends or family, what would you advise that they could do?
Elsie:I would definitely say, you know, I talk about this in my book a little bit. Find an issue that's really important to you and join a movement around it because there's so many issues happening. If you can just pick one. Like housing or, the environment or a local issue. Like I said, like someone wants to build something that's very unsustainable or they want to build it on top of a park, like just get involved somehow and bring friends because it's more fun with friends.
Ad:I think I know what you're going to say anyway. How do you choose one issue? I want to stand up for so many groups. So many.
Elsie:I hear you. And one. tactic, like when I, I sometimes sign up for like monthly donations to a nonprofit, but I'll do it for like a year and then the next year I'll give every month to a different nonprofit. So I think it's easier to give your time to one issue at a time, right? Because then you can really dig into it. So maybe focus on one issue for one year and then the next year focus on a different issue that's important to you. Or if there's one that's kind of. More important right now, like it's timely. I would say focus on that one But yeah, it gets overwhelming because you're like the problems with this world are endless But they all know that other people are also focusing on different ones than you are So there's somebody out there who's focusing on the other issues that you care about
Ad:Okay, that actually, that makes sense. And that, I don't know if I won't, it will take me a while to digest that because I'm from this world in my head where I just want to save the world. I remember once one of my teachers years ago said, Oh, you'll grow out of that. But I never have.
Elsie:I've gotten more radical with age.
Ad:You don't grow out of it. You either want to change the world or.
Elsie:Well, I think the people who grow out of it are maybe people who become very enmeshed in the system that is the problem, right?
Ad:I understand why the system works for some people. I do. But the more people I ask, are you happy? Are you happy with what's happening? Are you happy in your job? And, They say no. And my response is always, it's capitalism. Capitalism just wants to keep us working and working.
Elsie:Well, and so that's whole capitalism keeps us working. So we don't have time to go to protests and join movements and, you know, have the energy to keep going. to care and engage with all the issues.
Ad:I love that you do. That you've made it just such a vital part of who you are and what you represent. Can you just, Tell me what inspired the book
Elsie:so, yeah, so, a lot of the reason I wrote it is being on social media and seeing how angry and mean everyone, so many people are on there in the comments and I'm looking at these people arguing, right? And. Social media isn't real because people say things they would never say to your face, right? But it's just all of this instantly judging people because they're a democrat or a republican or whatever And i'm looking at these people like do you not know that we all need to work together? Because we are not each other's enemy. The enemy is up there. It's capitalism So while we're wasting our time having these arguments they are fleecing us and stealing the contents of our wallet and impoverishing us so And none of you are happy. You're just on here insulting each other Obviously, you're not happy or you wouldn't be doing that so I just my book is called how to find joy in a capitalist hellscape and I I was just like, all these people need to find joy because finding joy also is kind of an affront to capitalism because part of capitalism wants us to be unhappy. They want us to be insecure so they can sell us, diet, fad diets and makeup and clothes and all of the things that, They think we should need. Right. And a lot of the things you have to feel bad about yourself to kind of want, so finding joy means you're happy with yourself and you don't need to fill a hole with purchases from all the ads on social media.
Ad:I love that. How however, I, we don't help ourselves.
Elsie:They hire psychiatrists. To make their ads so that we will succumb to them. Yes, people make choices, and so part of my book is about how to make better choices so that you're not, you know, falling for all these ads. So yes, we have to take a little personal responsibility, but we're being manipulated also.
Ad:We are.
Elsie:Like, I'm gonna tell you the Facebook ads that I'm shown are really perfect for me. Like, I actually have to resist them because they have learned so much about me that they really know what I want.
Ad:Yeah, that's why I stay away from social media as much as I can because I just don't find it very, I don't find it very nice. I'm probably one of the worst because I have a zero tolerance to negativity because then it will bring me down and I don't want to go don't want to go down that slope. I'm really happy you wrote a book, did you actually manage to get promotion done?
Elsie:So you're part of my promotion. So I have, I have six podcasts and radio interviews this month as part of my promotion. And then the book officially publishes on October 2nd. So then I'm going to do some advertising and probably do some more, podcast interviews. It's going to be a process because I also have like a business that I run, which is not this book. I have to balance, balance them out.
Ad:When the book comes out on October 2nd, where can people get a copy of that?
Elsie:So, they can get it on Amazon, and by the time it publishes, I think it will also be on bookshop. org, which is what I prefer you use, because it's not Amazon. And also, if you go to bookshop. org, you can also have the purchase benefit your local bookstore, or just order it from your, you might be able to order it from your local bookstore by then.
Ad:Okay, so it will be available internationally. So in the United Kingdom, we can still get it.
Elsie:Yeah. So I do have a landing page for it. It's called how to find joy book. com. And if you go there, there'll be all the links to buy it once they're available.
Ad:Perfect. I'll put that on the show notes. I could talk to you forever. But I appreciate that you have things to do. Thank you so much for coming on.
Elsie:This was great. I enjoyed this conversation so much.
Ad:I'm going to let you go. Just one more how do we balance environmental sustainability? economic progress.
Elsie:Well, so that is a bit of an issue because our current philosophy on economic progress is to continue to grow, grow, grow. And the problem is we're already using more than the amount of resources that the earth can sustain every year. So, the problem is that capitalists think that we can just sell you different things made of different materials and that's really not going to work. There's nothing we can sell that 8 billion people need that is going to lead to environmental sustainability. I don't have the answer to that, but I know that the way we're doing it right now, there has, there is an end to it. The end to it is that the earth will not grow anything anymore and all the species have died. So, that sounds terrible, but I mean, we just can't, because the population of the earth has grown so much, we have to stop making so much stuff. And we have to go back. So when I was young, you could not get stuff. And I lived in the middle of nowhere. There was even less stuff there. So you took care of stuff. You cleaned stuff. You maintained stuff. You, you knew that if the thing you had broke, you might not be able to afford or obtain a new one. So that is the attitude we need to go back to. You know, we have all this, you know, this throwaway culture now. We have, I just watched this cool video the other day about how the clothing industry has just become so wasteful. So if we are ever to get back on track, we have to go back to an attitude that you can't just create a billion plastic things and then throw half of them away and, you know, maybe recycle the other half. It's just, you know, It's not going to work. There's, there's going to come a day where all of the things will become very expensive because there is now a shortage of materials to make them. the problem is that it's not something that we as individuals can do. We should act appropriately as individuals, but we didn't create this problem. It will take all of us together to pressure the people who really have the power to change things.
Ad:I agree. That definitely is going to happen. You've been great,
Elsie:awesome. Great. Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your day.
Ad:I will put Elsie's book and other information about Elsie in the show notes and she mentioned another book when I was speaking to her so I'm going to put that book in the show notes also thank you for listening, be kind to others, but most importantly, be kind to yourself. Bye bye bye
