Their Story Their Voice
Their Story Their Voice
Crisis to Coping: Harriet’s Experience with Bipolar Disorder and Volunteering
I was honored to have Harriet joining me again to share her extraordinary journey of resilience and transformation. In this episode, we discuss her meaningful work with the Samaritans, and the emotional intricacies of engaging in profound conversations about personal struggles.
Harriet opens up about her past trauma, including a life-altering car accident that took her best friend's life, and how she’s navigated the complex path of healing over the last decade.
Please note transcription accuracy may vary.
Below are links to the materials mentioned in this episode:
https://www.samaritans.org/
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Could-Tell-You-Just-Thing/dp/1782119221
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Growing-Brave-Words-soothe-fear/dp/B0D92T4DBQ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2D1GWRH6P3EYF&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.19AdXzjEqDlDcLswjGWLsto3s9lesx2Dmml0JpmjZNdulGXBIiL8C1Srj76fi6onLnUDBPuiKUlOkuvkXRycnJa8YMzMLDDH7uw4gNs3geoVyAkK5a7GsdNbPPsjl__NuuAfbBxz3Unbnf1QjS7xX2Xy5dl4eJKFwTp51bTU-E58khhcJW-uuc6zjBt-atbCaMy1lYzgzD-oCfqDJfuW8wu4NtKb8z-K1JFhhbaMhPU.Ee5QxgyUUKZ5DaIcHfS9Bt39QdnROBEm-Ql2f_2tWWI&dib_tag=se&keywords=donna+ashworth&qid=1725957549&sprefix=donna+ask%2Caps%2C76&sr=8-1
Music by:
(Neffex - A year ago)
(Neffex - dont want to let myself go)
Welcome to another episode of Their Story, Their Voice. This episode, Harriet is back. Yay, yay, yay. Okay, so pre warning, are there tangents? There are. Do we digress a lot? Yes, we do. Did we lose each other at some point towards the end of the recording? Yes, we did Hi Harriet, how are you?
Harriet:Hello. Thank you so much for having me back It's a delight to talk to you again.
Adeola:I wanted to speak to her again because I wanted an update and I wanted to find out what you've been up to. So now I'm going to ask you a few questions, whatever you don't want to answer. Just skip through. When we first spoke, you were really open about your journey. And I was always in awe of how. Just how resilient you were, and I think most people are, but I would like to know What's changed for you since we last spoke?
Harriet:Okay, so this year it has been 10 years since I was hit by a car at 101 miles an hour while standing in a bus stop with my best friend that got killed at the scene It's always like a bit of a how to how to capture that in one sentence and not drag it out but The significance. I don't know what, they say that time is a healer and like I couldn't have felt, I didn't know how I was going to feel in the, in the years after getting hit by a car and how it like threw my life off kilter and completely like changed everything. But, And they say that, yeah, that time's a healer and after 10 years, I don't know why it feels significant, but I feel like I can like fully breathe from all the pain and actually kind of get on with things. Like, it feels a lot easier to just deal with everything.
Adeola:I know you don't remember, but when we spoke last time and obviously we didn't really know each other and It was very autopilot. This is what happened. This is my name. Just need to get it out, get it out. And it's out. Just now it was different. Your response was, your response was different. It was less, Autopilot. Let me just. This time you actually were present and answered. Does that make sense?
Harriet:Yeah, yeah, I feel that. It still felt autopilot y to me. I find it hard to, to differ the way I say it and, and kind of share emotions when I say it, but it's nice that you saw a difference. That means a lot.
Adeola:Thank you. Do you know why? Because I wasn't even going to, I was just going to put it in the intro, without you, I was just going to mention, obviously, our first conversation, but you didn't need to share.
Harriet:But the feeling of like, the freedom that I feel is significant. In relation to that, like, I just, my, unfortunately, that anchors such a big part of my life that I have to make a reference to it on a regular basis, as it's like, you know, like, when someone's, any sort of trauma, when your mom dies, like, you'll make reference to that, like, repeatedly, forever, you know, it's just kind of, it marks, like, a significant time in your life, and, and you're then talking about how it is afterwards.
Adeola:Okay. Okay.
Harriet:Yeah, that's how it feels.
Adeola:I know Harriet. The person comes with that trauma, I just see Harriet the person, Harriet.
Harriet:separate from that
Adeola:Yes.
Harriet:So on that note, let's, let's focus on the present anyway, and then go on your question.
Adeola:Okay. Have you evolved to become even more fabulous than you were before? Okay. No, because you know, I think you're fabulous. So I just want to know, really, What have you been doing? What have you been doing?
Harriet:So, yeah, like, it's interesting that you weren't going to go back to what happened to you, because I can't help but make reference to it in all of the things. And it's, I suppose, I think very much on a timeline, like, all the time. Like, I don't know why I, like, log things in terms of events that have happened in I don't, do other people see their life as a timeline? The success recently is I have been able to be active and, yeah, active and not as restricted by my chronic fatigue and disabilities than I was to the point where, you know, the personal independent payment, the PIP, Yeah, I had that for nine years and got a Motability car and so this year, yeah, this year they took it off me because I have excelled in my recovery and I'm doing so much better that I don't qualify for it, which a lot of people have said that, so that's not fair, like, those who have it and don't need it, like, you know, you don't, you deserve it. I called one person and they just said, like, congratulations, like, it's great. Say like, that's such a success. That, and it is, it's such a success that I'm able to walk enough that I don't qualify for a car. Like is is a, is an achievement.
Adeola:I knew that would be your attitude. I understand why there were people who said, Oh, well, you should contest or that's out of order, but actually it's not, it's, it's rewarding to know that actually you don't need that anymore because that was one of my questions. Emotionally and physically, how have you been doing? And I know you worked on your mobility because sometimes I'd watch some of your videos on Instagram and I'd be like, Harriet, you're doing things that I don't have the energy to do. So I'm not really sure how you're pushing yourself. So I knew that would be your attitude. I am actually happy. Do you still get that? But do you still have the car?
Harriet:No, no, so they took the car off me. That's fine. I still have the blue badge. The blue badge is still mine. Okay. And it will still be mine. Hopefully forever, because the criteria for it, I believe, is if you can't walk, say, a short distance, unaided. You get it because you got how you meant to carry your shopping with an aid to the car, I think is the gist.
Adeola:Okay,
Harriet:I can't walk at all without a crutch. I mean around the house I can but you know, like on the street I can't walk so so and it's just a full effort of all that, you know, like I like So I used to sort of hold myself back a little bit when I had the pip and the car because I didn't want to not qualify for it, so I mentally kind of didn't work as hard. The freedom, no longer having it means that I kind of push myself to like, to exhaustion more than I ever would have before, because it doesn't hold me back anymore. I mean, I wasn't exactly holding myself, I was working really hard,
Adeola:I've never known the Harriet where, you know, when you have your dip. I've only known the Harriet who just keeps going and just pushes herself a lot.
Harriet:When you said, don't, haven't really known you and you've had your dip, what, what do you mean by dip?
Adeola:You know when you just need to shut off, from physically it hasn't been that great, emotionally it hasn't been that great, I've, Whenever we've spoken, even, because remember ages ago, we used to, every now and again, we used to actually, have conversations. Yes, I feel bad. Please don't. No, I feel like a horrible human being. Right, the reason I'm laughing and saying to Harriet that I feel like a horrible human being is because, Those conversations didn't stop because of Harriet, those conversations stopped because of me, and I don't know, I always thought that if you're going to step away, Harriet probably would be easy because she would be able to understand that sometimes people need to step away. But on the flip side of that, I didn't check in. I didn't check in on you. And actually, I actually feel like I might actually cry. That makes me feel like the biggest sh it i should have checked in and i'm sorry back to my question
Harriet:It's the shoulds i hear you say should and i should do this and i should have done this and like i hate the shoulds like it's the shoulds Like, the shoulds are what will kill you, the shoulds are, the shoulds are all like, it's not about who said, who said that you should, you know, like where are these coming from, it's do what you can with where you are in life, with what you're able to, if you can't reach out and can't be in connection with people for however long, the should is that you should look after yourself rather than criticise yourself.
Adeola:Huh. I see you, you did a listener on me. You, you flipped the script. You flipped the script. You're the only person who flips the script. So back to you, the guest.
Harriet:Oh yeah. Sorry.
Adeola:So you don't have the car anymore. Physically not having the car has actually helped. It's helped. Emotionally, how have you been doing just in general?
Harriet:No, because you mentioned like, why do you not have the dips or, you know, you expect like, I'm constantly always working really hard and when, when you can't be constant and when does it stop? That's what you're saying. The real dip, when I've like, when I can't, when I can't take it anymore, the, I'm going to say there have been two times in the last 10 years we'll go, is both times when I've been sectioned. So, when I can't take it anymore mentally, I've lost my mind and been put in a mental hospital because I can't look after myself anymore. Because they say one time because I was too sad and then one time because I was too excited and then they've like diagnosed me with organic bipolar from the brain injury from that and now I know not to push either side and I am able to stay level because I know to go too extreme either way because that will be disastrous.
Adeola:What have you put in place? What tools have you used to help you not to go either way?
Harriet:Okay, so I take my medication at the same time every day. I've got a little Monday to Sunday little pop thing where you get them out every day, so I don't ever miss a day. I've asked and demanded and the extra fast release meant like anti psychotic quetiapine to stop whenever I feel myself getting too carried away. Which, they're all great, so you have to kind of like have your head on your shoulders to be able to kind of like navigate your own recovery otherwise, because people aren't going to save you, you have to do it yourself, sort of thing. But the biggest thing is, I kind of identified with my therapist, I was like, I just every now and then like everything gets a bit too much and I'm dealing with all these things, I'm getting, I'm carrying on with life, like despite all this like heaviness I carry inside me, I just, I'm coping, I'm carrying, I'm just existing and living and every now and then I just want to push to get put in hospital again because it's just so much and I'm just so like I don't know and then she said like rather than pushing to go in hospital why don't you just take yourself off for a few days like a hotel or to a different place and wait until those feelings have gone because that that's better than losing your independence and being put in hospital but still gives me the break of not having to be around all the things I'm dealing with. I say all the things I'm dealing with like as in just like, you know, being a human being and just like interacting with people and not being like, God, like, I feel awful or like, I do it like, you know, I, I have to use a wheelchair and crutches and footsweep the rest of my life and not complaining about that and I just holding all these things in that like I just have to deal with because we all have to deal with different but it just every now and then gets like too much to deal with.
Adeola:Do you ever complain? And sometimes I know that sounds like the most stupid question and just to clarify, I don't feel like that's a question I would ask anyone else but I'm asking you because I see you in this in a certain way of Harriet. She just, she just keeps going and never complains
Harriet:I would say no. Yeah, I, yeah. So I don't tend to complain that much. So. I find it so, if there's something bothering me, if I'm having a difficulty, which is on a, you know, it happens as, as things crop up in life. I like, I talk to my mum or I talk to my partner and I'll say it kind of once to get it out of my system, I don't, so I feel like when something bad has happened, or when something's bothering you, I feel like you can say it to someone or to people, but it's the repeatedly bringing up the exact same thing over and over and over again that will hold you in that kind of struggle, and people can't really deal with. The latest thing is that there's something wrong with my foot, like, I may have to have the toe, like, removed because blah, blah, blah, like, I might have, if I don't, it'll get infected and I'm scared they're going to try and cut off my leg, which they've threatened several times before. And I've just mentioned it a few times to my mum and my partner and that is enough for me to kind of be like okay it's stressful and it's annoying but we're dealing with it and I've bent it a little bit and now I can carry on. I find that important, rather, I do, like, I struggle when people come, when someone complains and they just tell you the same thing, it's just, it's just, if anything, like, if anyone complains and they're saying the same thing over and over again, they've got to go away and deal with it and change something, or something's got, or they've got to accept the struggle. We can't and make it better.
Adeola:You're right. This Harriet that I'm speaking to is pretty much the same Harriet, you're just older and wiser. But actually not, when I say wiser, you were kind of wise last time also. So it's, I'm smiling just because what you're saying to me it's what I'd expect from you. Just reminds me of, why I just always think you're so amazing.
Harriet:I feel very seen by you, so thank you.
Adeola:That's actually really nice, because you actually are.
Harriet:I have this comment, yeah, so my mum's like my best friend and like, I'm just like, we have this conversation and I'm like, I don't need to, I don't need to reference her at all for this. So you'll go out into the world and I'll, I'll talk to people and I love asking about people and I love finding out their struggles, I love finding out things that are going well, like championing people. And you'll go, I say, I say you'll go out, so if I go out to coffee shops or I go out to pubs, People don't really ask you many questions, so I'll be the one, so I can spend a long time talking to someone and they'll not ask me a single thing about myself and it's really like, that's fine, I don't need to talk about myself all the time, but every now and then I'm like, it's really nice for someone to actually be interested. I,
Adeola:It's people, this is, this is the other thing that, whilst I've just been, Trying to understand things a bit more, I've realized that first and foremost, and it doesn't mean people are selfish. It's just, if I go out sometimes with my partner and he'll complain about something involving another person and I'll say to him, but they don't care They don't care because first and foremost what you need to understand about human beings is all they like, not in a selfish way Yeah,
Harriet:but we're self obsessed
Adeola:Yeah, basically.
Harriet:Yes. It's like survival of the fittest. We have to be self obsessed in.
Adeola:When we spoke before, you mentioned you were going to be working for the Samaritans. So I Don't worry, I'm not going to ask anything confidential because I know that's not how it works Why was that important for you to do that?
Harriet:Why was it important me to join Samaritans? Yeah Because I have this burning need for people to tell me their struggles. As a person that carries around a lot of pain, but doesn't want to talk about it, or herself, I'm happy to, but I don't want to constantly bring up all the horrible things that I'm been going through, or could go wrong, and blah blah, I found very early on in my recovery that I sat with someone, like, again, I love talking to strangers in pubs, and they'll just tell you things, and it's wonderful, I just sat and had a conversation with someone for like two or three hours about blah All of the horrible things that happened in their childhood and then the at the end they like were like thank you gave me a hug and walked away and my friend said you might have just saved a life there and I'm kind of that's what it feels like in Samaritans.
Adeola:Do you ever feel drained after?
Harriet:Each shift is different. Um, they ask us to do for four hour shifts, which ends up being, and I tend to keep a note of phone calls. Last shift I did two calls, so one for an hour and a half, one for an hour, and then. a few emails in between. Some other weeks I'll do very short calls and there'll be like nine. But the, the beautiful conversations that we end up having that end up being about 45 minutes to an hour because people, a lot of people can't really share emotionally for that long and not be tired so they never go on for too much longer than that. They're the ones that kind of, they're meaningful and you can really connect with someone and you really can feel like you've you've helped them by listening and by like connecting. The ones that aren't as great or you just, you know, you're not the right person for them and it's always been really hard to listen to their struggle and they've not really been able to be positive about it, are outweighed by the good ones and even on the ones that, that drain you, you know it kind of, you've done your best to help someone.
Adeola:I didn't mean drain in, like in a negative way, when you said to me that you were going to be doing it and I thought, Oh, I'd love to do that. And I thought I couldn't do it. I wouldn't have been able to do it.
Harriet:Yeah, no, I have a few people say that and I know you didn't mean it negatively but it is a part, as part of being a human and being around people, people, sometimes it will suck the life out of you and sometimes it will make you feel bigged up and great, It's a need for me, as much as it is a want, that if I don't have these conversations on a regular basis I feel a bit crap about myself and I feel a bit like, for whatever reason, talking about really, really difficult things with people and actually like, Giving them the time of day makes me feel wonderful as a person rather than, I have lots of people say I couldn't do it, and I'm like, well, I want to do it, it's the difference.
Adeola:I'm glad that they have you on the team. And I'm glad that actually you're getting something from it as well.
Harriet:You can't do anything unless you're getting something from it, you know, otherwise there's no incentive to keep doing it, whatever it is. I wish I could do that but, I don't know, like, that's a pressure that you put on yourself to kind of do this nice thing for the people, but you, you can only do what you're doing, or what's within your capabilities, and if you don't have the room for something, it's the constant, I have perspective, I've just been like, you deal, you deal with what is not what could be.
Adeola:That's actually true and that is, a meditation teacher says that all the time. You are an avid reader. What books have you read that you have, that you found really insightful, have helped you on your journey? Because I know you are a reader.
Harriet:Well, only until recently, I read a lot of only non fiction bits of self help, but also memoirs and people coping with things and Self help reads in a certain way that if you're not up for it, it's quite like, it's quite, I found like recently, I find it hard to kind of get involved with it, but I find people sharing like, like memoirs or say listen to podcasts of people going through difficult things, like Katie Piper's Extraordinary People is one that I listen to, like I find those really helpful because it's like not someone telling you what you should be doing, but you can learn from They're the ways they've coped. That was one of the things that, so I find that more helpful than being told, because, but it depends, I've read enough self help that I kind of know, and I've been in tune with myself, like, and I've listened to how things feel inside me to kind of work out what, what I need to do, if that makes sense. So it's,
Adeola:No, it does.
Harriet:it's easier to, it's a lot more, I struggle to get into them now because I like, I just like reading about how people have coped with different things and that sets the example.
Adeola:So I started reading this book, literally a few days ago. when I read it, I thought of you if I could tell you one thing by Richard Reed he spoke to quite a few people. Some people I personally found a bit questionable, but that's just my personal opinion. He spoke to Terry Waite. Do you know who Terry Waite is? No, cause you're too young, which is fine. I thought, is anyone going to know who Terry White is? He was a hostage. Um, he went to Lebanon back in the eighties and he was then taken hostage for five years. And then he, luckily he got out and was able to come back home. He said he wasn't angry with the people who captured him. And I thought that's Harriet, that's the same attitude that Harriet has. You weren't ever really about anger. And I, I remember what you said to me, which is really weird, but I do, you said to me, but what does being angry achieve? And I just thought that's Harriet's attitude. And this is a man who was held hostage for five years and that was his attitude. And I just wanted to mention it because when I read it, it just reminded me of you and I thought that was lovely.
Harriet:Yeah, because people get caught up on, it's like the whole complaining thing as well, any sort of negative emotions like complaining or being angry or like, blaming other people, they're all just gonna make you feel awful rather than make you feel better, but it feels at the time I think people feel like it almost is helping, but it just holds you in that thing, that place, it seems like, like, again, I graduated in philosophy the day before I got hit by a car, like, you know, like, I just feel like philosophy, like, has helped me a lot. I just, I'm not sure where I was going with that.
Adeola:That's okay. There's so many times when I'm not sure where I'm going with things also, so that's okay. What brings you joy now? Like, what does actually bring you joy? I know what brought you joy. before
Harriet:I asked someone this is the day, I said to someone in the pub, I said what are you doing or what, yeah, what are you doing when you feel your best? Like and they're like, oh interesting question, like what, what brings you the joy, that joy, and I can feel the, like, purest joy. I mean, you know, mostly on my own. You know, we've had this conversation of like being around other people and people are great, but it is really hard. Like, you know, you can feel so much joy on your own that like, I, I remember age goes from I said like, but you, you can have a happy individual. But you cannot get a group of people and have them all as happy equally together as one person.
Adeola:That is actually true, and I never thought of that.
Harriet:And like, you know, I'm trying to try and socialise more and be around people, but it's so much happier, easier to, for me to feel proper joy. When, but, and not even necessarily completely on my own, when I'm exercising, when I'm reading, when I'm just sitting and meditating brings me a lot of joy because I don't do it and I don't feel good. I know you should do it, but I don't want to sit there with my mind when it's not happening. That's when I do exercise or to change it or something. But I also feel incredible joy when I have one on one conversations like these. Okay. What about you?
Adeola:No, no, no, stop, stop, stop.
Harriet:Carry on, carry on.
Adeola:Right. I never asked you this before. Or I may have, either way I'm asking again. I'm not asking you. To speak on behalf of everyone, just asking you, do you think, as a society, are we still progressing with understanding and being more aware of mental health and how it impacts individuals?
Harriet:All depends on, on your stance, and how you're feeling about yourself in terms of how you see the world. So, I can tell you how I'm seeing the world right now, but I don't really think, I don't know if anyone has a, You can't have an unbiased opinion of how the world's going, it has to, it relates to you, sort of thing. But like, I'm waiting for So we have all this explosion of technology and this constant, like, interaction, constant screens and constant, like, bombardment and people raising awareness in a, in a loud, in your face, like, but also good way, but I'm waiting for the time when I just want a world of less screens. I'm waiting for a time when we're like, we're, we're, we're getting more aware and considering people's feelings. And if I was. I feel like if ever I was going to get hit by a car and if ever I was going to develop bipolar and psychosis and use a wheelchair and be disabled and be different from the norm, what a time to be alive. Is it right now? Like, I feel like, You know, if it was, if it was 10 years ago, if it was 100 years ago, I would be struggling a lot more with all of these things. The world has got a lot more accepting of specific struggles, but not all.
Adeola:I'm not really a fan of, I'm not a fan of technology. When Microsoft went down and people couldn't get their flights back or, and. My friend was stuck somewhere and I said to her, which was not helpful, I know that in hindsight and I said, okay, well, but did everyone not realize with our reliance on technology, this was always going to happen at some point and it's going to happen again.
Harriet:It's the reliance on it that makes me uncomfortable.
Adeola:So, in London, we have all these cycle lanes, which, It's fine, I'm not complaining about that, as such, but then you also, the cycle lanes are on the road, and I'm sure it was this week, you had people who had guide dogs, and they went to the House of Parliament to protest because they said, the roads aren't, they're not safe for us, getting on the bus isn't easy for us, getting on the train isn't easy for us, and I thought to myself, you have this group, and This is, this is a thing I love saying all the time. We need to do better because it doesn't, that doesn't affect me, but there is a group of people who that does affect, so just do better.
Harriet:Yeah, I stand by the whole, interesting choice of words, so when you're in a wheelchair the world is Not anywhere near as good as it should be in terms of supporting that. The fact that I can get out of my wheelchair, I don't need it all the time, like, makes me a lot happier than if I, if I was paralysed and lived in it, you know. There's not, whenever people push me, like, you know, they're like, Oh, there's not enough drop curbs, and all that shop has a step to get into it, and what are you meant to do? And, you know, we don't, The world's catching up, but there's a lot to, I don't know, but there's a lot to be done still. Tubes? Yeah. Tubes that don't have, that don't have lifts? No. Like it's just, but again, like fortunately I don't have to fight that corner. or, or death, or, because that would, I don't know, when I used the wheelchair more when I couldn't walk on my feet, like, or foot, I still had a positive attitude and just dealt with it, but everything was a lot more challenging.
Adeola:I love that you're so good with your positive attitude, some days I also have said positive attitude, but I also have the attitude of, we've got this whole, I'm sure it's called the Equality Diversity Act, and I just feel like we need to, we need to get to a stage where people understand, but equality is not, oh, we all need to be exactly the same. I get it. We're not, we're all different, but it shouldn't be easier for me to go into London and get the tube
Harriet:I suppose like part of the problem is the fact that like, is it like we don't have the infrastructure that, it's not even, so it's not even like wheelchair users specifically, it's people that are different in different ways. Like the world isn't built around making it accessible. It's good that we're getting more educated, but I think it seems like it's like quite a difficult task for whatever reason to get like, I don't know, to make the entire world accessible. I think, regardless of what's happening in the world, I think the most important thing for me and for most people is to make sure that you're progressing and you're happy with yourself. And if we all did a little bit more work on ourselves, like there's the saying, If you think about how hard it is to change yourself, you'll realise how much harder and how much little chance you'll have actually changing someone else. If we all improved ourself 1%, you know, that would make the world better than if all these things changed. know that my brain with its mental health and mental illness is a significantly different one to the average person, I think. Whenever something goes wrong, whenever there's any sort of struggle, all I do, and this isn't helpful for other people, but all I do is get excited that I'm going to feel better after it. Like, I'm going to grow from it, I'm going to feel happier at some point because I've had this down.
Adeola:Thank you so much for coming back again for talking to me. Did we go off on different tangents? Possibly. Is that okay? Yes, it is. Thank you. Okay. One last time and then I'll never say it again, but I love you.
Harriet:I love you too.
Adeola:Thank you for listening. I just want to really quickly just recommend a book that I have been reading by an author called Donna Ashworth. She has a series of books that well, they're books, but they're poems and honestly it has just helped me through so much and to the point that I sent a copy to her. to Harriet, because we don't live in the same place in the UK, I feel like the poems are written from a place of love. So I'm going to put the link in the show notes, and I'll also put the link of the book that I mentioned to Harriet in there. Thank you. Be kind to others, but most importantly, be kind to yourself. Bye, bye, bye!
