Their Story Their Voice
Their Story Their Voice
Preemie in a pandemic
This episode was originally recorded in 2020 and as we are approaching World Prematurity day I have re released this episode.
A global pandemic has started and in the mist of the world falling apart Yemi tells her story of how she navigated first time pregnancy which was nothing like she had anticipated.
Additional note - NICU which is mentioned several times in the podcast is an abbreviation for - newborn intensive care unit
Please note transcription accuracy may vary.
Music by - Neffex - don't want to let myself down
Neffex - A year go
Sources:
(https://www.bliss.org.uk)
(https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/contact-us/contact-us/)
(https://www.trusselltrust.org/get-help/find-a-foodbank/)
(https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/preterm-birth)
https://youtu.be/F0W682Xy7fI
Welcome to another episode of ChatAholic. This episode is called Premie in a Pandemic. This episode is about premature babies because in 2020 my niece had a premature baby this is Noa's episode. This is Noa's story. her beginning, not in her words, in her mum's words, I wanted to put it out again November the 17th is World Prematurity Day. on one of my non cheerful notes, another reason I wanted to put out again was because I know that there were babies. There still are babies who. They didn't get to go home. Not all premature babies especially premature babies in other countries where the healthcare system is not the same as it is in the western world. Statistics for developing countries and premature babies. Survival rate is so much lower than it is in America or the United Kingdom. I guess I wanted to put it out again just for a world prematurity day. to honor the memories of the little people who didn't get to come home so thank you for listening to this episode, and if you've listened to before, thank you for listening to it again. For those who didn't know who may be interested. I gave a brief overview when I first did this episode of just a few things that maybe people might want to know. I'm not sure, but I'm going to do it anyway cause I did it then. Preterm babies are defined as babies born alive before the 37 weeks are complete, they're usually placed in three subcatergories. Extremely premature preterm, which is less than 28 weeks, very preterm, 28 to 32 weeks, moderate to late preterm, which is 30 to 37 weeks. And according to the World Health Organization, an estimated 15 billion babies, a born preterm every year around the world. And at the time when I did this episode, I said, That's a staggering number. And now I still believe that's a staggering number. I don't know what that number is now, but I said it at the time. Say it again. That number really shocked me. And I also just wanted to add in the, because I believe in this episode we mentioned that nicu, which is neonatal intensive care unit, not all babies in the neonatal intensive care unit are premature babies, I gave a brief overview. what preterm babies mean? Premature babies. So premature babies are defined as babies born alive before the 37 week gestational period. I'm sure that's the correct terminology, at least I think it's the correct terminology And preterm babies are placed in three subcatergories. Extremely preterm, which is less than 28 weeks, very preterm, which is 28 to 32 weeks, and moderate to late preterm, which is 30 to 37 weeks. Noa fell into extremely preterm, According to the World Health Organization, an estimated 15 babies are born preterm every year around the world. And the first time when I recorded this, I said, That's a staggered number. And now I still think that's such a staggering number. So that's it. That's my little insert. Will there be more? I do not know. Some of this audio I have recorded again, Just, why not? And now I'm going to basically switch back to the original audio that was done back in 2020
Adeola:I always knew that some babies were born early. However, it wasn't until we as a family went through this experience, I actually deeper appreciation to what actually, mums, dads, family members, hospital staff, what they actually go through and the amount of care that's actually put into ensuring these babies actually make it. So I'm just going to introduce my niece. Her name is Yemi. Thank you so much for agreeing to do this.
YEMI:Thank you for having me.
Adeola:Do you want to start by telling us about you?
YEMI:So my name's Yemi I live in east London with my husband and the baby in question, her name is Noa. She was born in May of 2020 at 25 weeks. So she would be in that extremely premature category. So yeah, thats me.
Adeola:Would you mind just telling us why you agreed to do this and then a bit about your journey.
YEMI:Sure is that I agreed to do this because Noa spent a total of a hundred days in hospital. So she came home on hundredth day of life. And I just remember at the very beginning feeling so scared and so alone and just thinking, I honestly don't know how I'm gonna get through this. It definitely was like the most difficult thing I've ever been through, but if I can just help one person who is in that position who is at the beginning of their journey and thinks, oh my gosh, I don't know what to expect, or I don't know how I'm going to do this. I think that would be enough for me. And even just educating people, like people who might have a friend whose was going through it and they not quite sure what to say. And also I just love talking about my baby. This is true. I read something recently and I think it is a common misconception that you're more likely to have a premature baby. If you're a smoker, you take drugs, you're a drinker or you have some sort of underlying health condition. Were, any of these applicable to you? I like people to know it is that genuinely okay, well I'm fit and healthy. So chance of me having a preterm baby, no chance. Yeah so I think that is quite a normal preconception. And I know that there are a lot of babies who are born early because their mothers have developed an illness for example, in pregnancy. But that just wasn't the case at all with Noa, it was a complete surprise. And up until the point that she came, my pregnancy had been really unremarkable to be honest and very low risk. So it was a surprise. It was completely spontaneous, still dont know of any reason why it happened. So I guess there's lots of reasons that your baby could come early and your baby could also come early for absolutely no reason.
Adeola:Okay. Whenever, if at any point in time, it gets too much for you, then we can take a break.
YEMI:Same to you.
Adeola:I'm going to be fine because this isn't about me. This is about you. Do you mind just revisiting May, 2020 for me.
YEMI:I found out I was pregnant in early January and her due date was early September. And I think at the beginning of my pregnancy, I had the normal just anxieties and worries. that, I assumed most women have an early pregnancy. Once I hit like the different milestones. I had a 12 week scan. Everything was fine. That was a relief. How to 20 week scan. Everything was absolutely fine. She seemed to be growing really well found out she was a girl. I think at that point I started to feel much more relaxed and I think I started to enjoy my pregnancy, even though we'd kind of gone into lockdown and I was working from home and it was a bit lonely. That anxiety and worry about my baby's health and wellbeing started to kind of ease off hilarious that I wasn't anxious anymore. Just Really tired. I think it must have been about three weeks after the 20 weeks scan, about 23 weeks. I had Some slight cramping and some just really strange, like muscular pain in my stomach. I did lots of Googling and it, I thought it might be Braxton Hicks. I thought it might be this. I can't remember the name for it, but there was some kind of other pain that pregnant people tend to experience. I went in to the hospital just to be checked over. And they said, everything looked fine and just gave me some pain killers and I went home. And then I think by the end of the week, it had eased off. And that was great, but that only lasted for, I guess like a week, maybe a week or two. And then I started experiencing cramping pains again. It felt like period pains, to be honest. I've obviously never had a baby before. This was my first pregnancy, so I didn't know. What a contraction felt like, but I now understand that I was having contractions. Again, I just went into a hospital to be checked over. I think you don't want to seem dramatic or make fuss, but at the same time, I think you have to put your mind at ease. And I went in and they checked me over and said, everything looked fine. They checked my cervix and said that my cervix looked like it was still closed and was in exactly the position it should have been. But because I had been in before a week or two prior to that, they decided to do a test, the name of which I cannot remember. I think it was called an FCN or something like that. Ultimately, this test takes a swab from your cervix and they tests for, I think it's like a hormone. If it is above a certain level, there is a risk that you. Could go into preterm labor, I guess the higher it is, the more likely it is that you are going to go into preterm labor. So I remember them telling me, and I just was a bit, I was quite shocked really. I just didnt it was really unexpected. I had already been in, they said I was fine. I assumed it would be the same. I'd come in and they'd send me home. They would have also told me five minutes before that my cervix looked fine. And obviously because it was COVID, I had to go to the hospital by myself. So the doctor, really kindly offered to speak to my husband and, explain the situation, and because I had tested positive for this hormone, they said the best course of action was to keep me in so that I could receive a steroid injection. So the steroid injection basically helps the babies lungs develop, baby's lungs tend to be the last thing that develops, which is why babies are only considered term when they reached thirty seven weeks one of the reasons is because that's when their lungs tend to develop. So they offered me this steroid injection. There's two injections that have to be given 48 hours apart, so I had to stay in the hospital.
Adeola:At that stage, did it even enter your head? That there's a chance that your baby may come earlier then she was meant to.
YEMI:I mean in hindsight, it should have, but realistically, no, I thought to myself, if I'm, I don't know. I just think you think that you're going to be prepared for these things or you're going to surely I'd have a gut like surely, i'd know, if my baby was going to come, I don't know. Like I just thought everything's been going so smoothly. like at 25 weeks and my baby's coming. It just doesn't really make any sense. Like I had some pain, but it wasn't that bad. So I thought, obviously I want the steroid injection and when they give you the steroid injection, they also give you some medication that helps kind of ease off your contractions. I was moved over to the delivery ward. And after leaving me there for a little while, I think someone came back and they were like, listen, you're clearly not in labor. So you can just go back to the triage place that you came from. So I was like, okay, that's great. They think I'm not in labor. And then they sent me for scan, they said, the baby looks fine. You've still got plenty of fluids. She is like head down, which is a good position to be not like engaged, but like her head is down, so that's good. But there's just no issues. So I thought it's great that I'm getting the steroid injection and better to be safe than sorry, but I just didn't feel like my baby was coming. So I stayed in had the two injections and then the next morning they were like, you can go home now. So I was like, okay, I don't really understand what that means. is the baby coming or not? And one of the doctors said, oh, you know, sometimes this happens to people and they go into labor and then other times they go on to have a full term pregnancy. And I was like, that's why I wanted to hear. And I internalized that and I was like, she said, some women go on top of full-time pregnancy and that's going to be me. So this is just going, be like a little dramatic blip. I'm going to go home. It's going to ease off like it did last time. Cause this has happened already before I had pain in it went away.
Adeola:How soon was it that you had that overnight stay came home and then realized, okay, we've got to go back into hospital.
YEMI:I went into hospital for that overnight stay, I believe on a Monday. And I came out, I think on Tuesday or it could've been Wednesday. And I remember calling into work and just saying that I was going to be off for the rest of the week, but I would probably be back on Monday. Cause I just thought I'm clearly in some discomfort, like I was still getting the contractions. So I thought it's just best to rest and hopefully I'll be fine by Monday. So when I was discharged from hospital, I remember asking because I was still getting the contractions. I said, how would I know if I should come back? Because I feel like I've been experiencing this kind of pain for on and off for the last couple of weeks. How do I know. If I should come back and I think a midwife nurse said when you are getting no, I don't remember the guidance they give, but something about if you're getting contractions a minute apart for ten minutes or something along those lines, can't remember. So I was like, I held onto that and I was like, okay, at least that's something really concrete that I can go by. And if that happens and I, I know to come back in and then another doctor offered me painkillers. Something quite strong, like codine or something. And I was like, no thanks, if I'm having contractions, I feel like I probably need to feel them don't I. Like I need to know if I need to come back into hospital. So I declined. one of the female doctors I'd seen earlier just said, you know, when they did that test and I got the hormone test, she said, If your baby is coming early, we found that the best thing to do is actually just let the baby come rather than trying to keep the baby in. But what you need to understand is that because the baby will be so early, you have to have the baby in hospital. You cannot go home and accidently go into labor. You need to make sure that you're here. We're really lucky that the hospital that is our local hospital happens to have a neonatal intensive care unit that would be able to take babies as small as Noa was, but she just made it really clear that I needed to give birth in hospital. So after I was discharged from hospital, I think, like I said, I decided to take a few days off of work and just assumed that I would be back in on Monday. So just taking a few days to rest, but I'm still having contractions. Whilst I had been in hospital, I think I said, they give you medication to kind of calm your contractions down. And that had been helpful at the time. But as that wore off, they'd pick back up again. When I came home. But I remembered what the nurse had said to me. And she had been really clear about having contractions for a minute apart for a minute each or something along those lines. I downloaded a contraction timer but I never got to a place of this one minute apart for a minute. My contractions never, became that and they hadn't stopped. But I didn't feel like I was in labor. Like from what I've seen on movies, if you're a labor, you know, you're in labor, like it looks really, really painful. And whilst it was very uncomfortable, I could still walk. I can still have a conversation. So I again, assumed that it was just more of the same, like more of a false alarm.
Adeola:Okay. So I don't know if this is a silly question Did your water break?
YEMI:No, nothing dramatic. Like that happens. I was just having this, I guess like relatively low level contractions, but they were not easing off. I think it was Saturday morning my husband said I should go into hospital.
Adeola:It was Saturday morning
YEMI:Saturday morning, because I was supposed to be going for a picnic with you in the afternoon. And in the back of my mind, I thought to myself, I'll probably just pop into hospital and then they'll do the same. They'll check my cervix. It'll be close. I can just go to the picnic anyway. So I called you and I said, I probably, I said, I think I said, I don't think I can come. I didn't say I'm definitely not coming. I said, I don't think I can come. Cause I've got to go to hospital again. And it was such a hot day. So I just put on a little mini skirt, and a t-shirt because I didn't think I was going to be there very long..
Adeola:for a week, there was so much going on with you going to hospital and, I don't know why, I guess, because you just have to convince yourself sometimes that, nope, it's going to be fine. And I remember saying at some point earlier on in the week, in the week to my partner, I said, I don't know if I need to tell my brother and my sister in law, you know, what's been going on. And then I just, I was just like, it's fine. She's back, now the weathers nice. We going on a picnic. Never need to mention it or think about it again.
YEMI:So again by myself, cause partners weren't allowed to come with because of Covid so in the morning my husband had said, I really think you should go back to hospital. And I said, okay, well, I'm just gonna have a little bit of lunch, have a shower, get myself together and then I'll go in. So like lunchtime, I went in they saw me really quickly. There were a few women and I expected to be waiting, but they saw me quite quickly. And I think that was because
Adeola:you had been in twice before I had been into an overnight stay.
YEMI:Exactly. So there's only really quickly. Meanwhile, my husband has gone on a run. So the doctor was like, I'd try, everything's fine. Check your cervix again. And then we'll just see what the next steps are. And she very quickly, I said, oh, that was really quick. She said, oh yeah, you know, examinations should be quick if they're done right. But then when I knew things weren't good is when she got down to my level. So when they have something bad to tell you, they'd always like, get down to your level at the hospital. And she literally just said, so baby's coming today. And I was just like, I don't have what you mean. she, again, offered to call my husband and tell him, and he was like, literally out on a run and had to run home and pack a bag for me. Cause obviously I hadn't packed a bag. I know that women tend to pack a bag for a hospital, but that's later on I hadnt thought about it. I don't even know what you need in a hospital bag, to be honest with you. So he had to pack a bag for me really quickly. And I think he packed things for himself as well. Cause I don't think at the time we hadn't registered that like partners can't stay he was only even allowed to come straight in because I didn't know this at the time. So I got wheeled off to the delivery suite. Or the delivery ward and the midwife said to me, as she's wheeling me. And she said, oh, I heard you're having the baby today. And I said, oh, we don't know that the baby's necessarily coming today. And she said, you're six centimeters dilated. And I was like, oh, okay. That's really very much active in labor. Apparently they could like, see the membranes when they checked my cervix. She was coming basically. She was definitely coming. But I hadn't been aware of how far into labor. I had gotten, so at some point between I guess Wednesday when I had gone in, I can't remember. And they checked my cervix then, and Saturday morning, obviously, like labour had progressed during that time. And then I think the husband finally arrived and just sat in the room. And I said, I don't really know what happens now. Do I just like, literally wait for the baby to come do, I start pushing? I'm not really sure. And then all of a sudden, a few doctors came in with the machine. They scanned me and told me that obviously since the last time I had been scanned and baby was head down that had changed and she was now feet down. So she was breached and have feet were also wrapped in the umbilical cord, which is also like already going down. Out of my canal. I don't really know the scientific term.
Adeola:Neither do I,
YEMI:it's basically called. She was like, Footling breech, which I think is when you're your feet are first. And I had a cord prolapse, which basically means the umbilical cord is coming out before the baby. So they said. Obviously that cord is her oxygen supply. If you give birth vaginally, there's a risk that will cut off her oxygen supply as she's coming down. So your options are to try that or to have a C-section. But they said it will be slightly more complicated and could have consequences for you in the future. But you have to decide which option that you want to go with. So I had to decide, and my husband said, well, how long do we have to decide? And they were like, now you have to decide right now I did I with the C-section.
Adeola:Did you call your parents
YEMI:I called my sister who I am so surprised that she literally picked up the phone straight away, because obviously they're all in Canada. And there's a time difference, I called her, she picked up the phone straight away with her usual jolly self. And I said, oh, I'm back in hospital. The baby's coming today. And she just started crying. And then I started crying when even when I spoke to her, she was still crying. It lasted for a while. She was still crying. And I was like, we don't have time for this right now. Okay. we need to sort ourselves out, can't cry. I think it was just a case of, because obviously no one's there. You were going into surgery
Adeola:I remember saying I don't know what to think, because obviously I want the baby to be okay. The baby has to be okay because the baby's her person, but she's my person, so I need her to be okay. I just knew I needed my person to be okay, but I need my persons, persons be okay.
YEMI:Yeah. I think when they gave me the option, For C-section or vaginal bath. I read between the lines, my knew what she was saying. And I think she was basically saying if I tried to give birth vaginally, it is very unlikely that baby would survive. And so it wasn't, it just wasn't a option for me. It wasn't a consideration. And when you go in for a C-section, they come in, they have to read off this like long list of the potential risks which in a normal context would be scary, but I was like, I genuinely don't care. Like, all I want is for the baby. I don't care about myself in this moment. I actually just need a baby to be okay. I just want to give baby the best possible chance of being okay. Before I went down to surgery. They have someone come up from neonatal intensive care to tell you what to expect and you can just ask questions. And I remember the lady who came up saying she was like, baby, won't be breathing by herself. So we will have to, that'd be like a team of us. We will have to take her away, straight away. You won't get to hold her. And I was like, okay, fine, fine. Fine. Makes sense. And now I want to say it again. It sounds like a silly, but I was like, okay, but when can she come home? Like when will she be able to come home? And she said, oh, like her due date at the very earliest. And I was like, oh my God, like, it hadn't even occurred to me that. She does survive this. She's going to be in hospital for such a long time. This was in May and my due date wasn't until September. And I don't know why it hadn't occurred to me, but I just didn't realize that she would be in hospital. For so long. And that's assuming that she doesn't have any other major health concerns. And we don't, we have no idea whether she will or not. in that moment and I think my husband must've thought the same thing. We didn't talk about it, but I was like, I'm not asking about statistics or survival chances. I'm not asking that. Like, I just need to believe that my baby coming home. And thats it
Adeola:I didn't look into statistics and I don't really want to know what the statistics are plus some of the stories that I heard from the NICU based on your experience, even if I think about it now, it still breaks my heart and I actually could just start crying.
YEMI:I didn't know that much about premie babies, obviously until it was part of my experience, but I read a fact the other day that actually, I think it's 60%, if not more babies that end up in neonatal intensive care are actually born full term. So that experience of having a baby. In the NICU is not necessarily limited to people who have had their babies. They, I guess a lot of people who've had really small babies end up being there for an all time just because their babies are so small that they have to be there until that term. But I guess the majority of the babies are actually babies who are born at term and have other kind of complications and other illnesses. I think some of them can be there for a day or two, but some of them are really unwell and have to stay for a long time. And I think it's something that I still find difficult because I know that not all parents got to take their babies home. And so I'm so grateful for Noa. She's like a micro premie as they call them. She was really early, but her journey in the NICU was actually really quite smooth considering she was born so early. She hasn't had any kind of major health complications. So a lot of her time in there was really her lungs has growing and high learning to breathe by herself and her learning to feed and putting on weight. And I'm very conscious that a lot of other premie babies might have lots more medical considerations. There might be more things that they have to live with long-term when they come home. So I just know that my experience, I don't know, it kind of feels like my experiences almost like l ike a sanitized version of prematurity because everything turned out fine and she is on oxygen, but she won't be forever. And it's just generally like healthy baby.
Adeola:Can I ask because you're an ethnic minority. What was your experience by no means am I asking this question because feel like that's just be rude about the NHS because I'm so here for the NHS. And also. I'm going to try and not be political, but a hundred percent. I'm still wondering where their pay raise is. How do you feel your experience was? Because there's so much going on in the media and actually it's not just recently. It's been since the beginning of time. How minority groups are actually treated.
YEMI:Let's just state the fact, the fact is black women. Are, five times more likely to die in childbirth and in the postnatal period, let's not nibble around it. Like that's the statistic that came up. Isn't it?
Adeola:How do you feel you were treated based on the color of your skin? In all honesty.
YEMI:It's really difficult to say. I don't really know whether it, how it impacted my treatment, but I know that I was very aware of the statistic before I even became pregnant. So I think that burden that all black women who know that number have heard that number will go into pregnancy and told that knowing that they are more likely to die. That's like quite a heavy thing to go in with. I told you before, like my number one priority was making sure that my baby survived. If I did not know that I was five times more likely to die in childbirth, would that have been a concern that was on my mind at the time? Probably not. Even when I was like on the table, I was so like drugged up. And I felt myself like falling asleep. And I was like, is this it like, is this the point, at which I become one of those statistics. I don't wake up from this. I don't know if I was treated differently. I know there is the stereotype that black women can withstand more pain. I felt like it probably wasn't helped the fact that I actually wasn't in as much pain as I thought I would be. other than a very bearable amount of pain. Probably didn't help with that perception. But I'm also lucky that I think that I had quite a few black women who attended to me during my journey. I don't know. I think it would. I think it's probably over simplifying a level over simplifying a little bit. If we say that, if you have a black doc date or less each time, I don't know if that's necessarily true.
Adeola:They have actually done quite a few studies to show that. Fact black people do actually get better service from black doctors.
YEMI:Okay. Well, theres your answer? Problem solved.
Adeola:It's a thing just saying. Thank you for saying you would do this. This is your experience it's by no means. Every woman's experience because every experience is unique. I just thought maybe there might just be one person out there who listens to it. who can identify with even a little bit of what you went through and just take some comfort from it. So thank you for agreeing to do this. Do you want to mention anything else? Like the charity? They do amazing, amazing things. But did you want to mention about bliss?
YEMI:Oh yeah. So I just thought it would be nice to set up a little funding in Noa's name. That is contributing to bliss charity. So we've just got like a target of raising a thousand pounds over the course of the next year. I just feel so grateful for all of the care that she received. There was lots of like support from bliss as well whilst you are on the unit, even though. It was COVID and people couldnt necesarily present in the way that they would usually be. So I will ask if the link to her fund could be included with the episode. So if anyone feels like they'd like to donate, they can.
Adeola:No, that's perfect. Thank you.
YEMI:Thank you.
Adeola:Also. I wanted to say something else. They were all still loads of families out there who have babies, who don't have clothing and things like formula, nappies
YEMI:Yeah. So my local Tesco is that has almost like a big basket by the entrance. Yes. So if you have extra bits of shopping where you want to pick up extra bits of shopping, you can just pop them in the basket and they should get shipped straight to a food bank.
AO:I've just added this bit in because I appreciate we are going through a cost of living crisis and things are hard for people, so I'm not asking people to give anything that they can't, but a lot of the people who are really suffering from. This cost of living crisis in the United Kingdom, I think we are going through an economic crisis all over the world. It is really hard on families with babies and young children. So not to sound like the Tesco advert that we have in the United Kingdom, but I'm going to have to say it because I dunno what else to say. Every little helps. Thank you so much to listening to this episode. Again, if you, if this isn't your first time listening to it, if you, it's your first time listening to it. Thank you so much for listening to it. And just wanted to add in the Noa is now two and a half. I dunno if I mentioned at the beginning, Noa was two and a half. And in terms of her lung developing, I added in a little audio clip because one of her favorite things is you can't take anything away from her that she doesn't want you to take away from her because Noa will say to you, No, no, no. Or now she just will shout at you and say No. So I just wanted to put in a little audio or clip of that, and even now listening to this episode and listening to Yemi's experience. I know Noa fine, it still makes me sad that she went through that. And it just still makes me sad for all those babies that don't get to go home. The preterm babies that were in a NICU with Noa, whose names even now I remember, it genuinely breaks my heart. and all the babies around the world who just don't get to come home So yay to World Prematurity Day, which is coming on the 17th of November. which basically just means that a day of awareness for premature babies. and really to their parents who have to go through this journey. And also a random note to people in the United Kingdom, we have, Dunno what channel it's on. I don't even know if there'll be one this year, but every single year when it's world premature today, Pampers tend to put out this advert for. Premature baby nappies, and I feel like I mention this advert because honest to God, it's just so cute. So yes, that's it. I'm done. And thank you. Can someone please tell me where slash I know where she got them from, but how did Noa work out where these are kept? Noa worked it out, and not only did she take one, she then found the second one, then the third one, and now every time I try and put them back, she goes, No, no, no. Thank you, Noa, thank you. No, no, no. Okay, Okay. But I am going to take them off of you. Yes. No, no, no. I don't like the, No, no, no.
